I came into this search without a lot of feelings. I have all kinds of feelings now, and I need to get this off my chest.
My biggest feeling is disillusionment and disappointment with the saddle industry. Look, I couldn't be as blunt as I wanted to be in my reviews of some of these brands. This blog is Googleable and I'm not a jerk. But if you're considering any of the brands I looked at, please, shoot me a private message and I'll give you my honest thoughts.
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| Going to break up this monologue with scenes from the fitting journey. WOW something or other. |
But I will say that it amazes me that more than one rep expected me to sign a check for 1-2x what my first car cost after an hour of them standing in the center of the arena and saying "Looks good" every so often. After not even looking at the horse's back. After being unable to explain the physics and mechanics of the interaction between the saddle and the horse's back. After having no idea why my lower leg swung wildly in one saddle but not another.
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| Butet Dressage |
It also amazes me that the "holy grail" of saddle shopping is buying a custom saddle. Expecting people to spend that much money on a fixed, unchangeable (or only changeable to a point) object that is designed to fit a very changeable object like a horse's back and rider's seat is insane. And then add the fact that we order it usually without ever having sat in exactly what we ordered, and then we hope and pray it fits well when it gets here - and THEN add the fact that a lot of US fitters doing the fitting and ordering are simply not competent at all. It's terrifying. I am terrified of that process.
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| The Stubben Aramis with the 17.5" seat and the ridiculously tiny 12" flap |
Now let's look at demo and used saddles. This whole thing is set up to where a rider is encouraged to accept "good enough", and please don't interpret that as me calling anyone out, buying the saddle in front of you is way better than ordering custom IMO.
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| The custom CWD that had my name on the nameplate already and everything. If I may rant for a second, it was a very poor quality nameplate considering that saddle is currently worth more than my truck! |
But it's expensive to move demos around the country, and if it's in your hands already and it's passable, that's a more attractive option than continuing to spend $$$ finding other options. If I hadn't been willing to drop a truly stupid amount on fitting fees, I would have ended up with that County Connection, because it was good enough, and it magically appeared in my tack room, and the fitter was local.
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| A delicious color, and that was the most it had going for it even though it was briefly in my top spot |
Demo/used saddles are a better option than custom new, but they're just as challenging to get right. Consider the fact that what took the Patrick demo from "This is fine" to "I LOVE THIS" was the fitter identifying that the balance was ever so slightly off and putting part of a towel under the front of the saddle. Without a good fitter with a keen eye for biomechanics and physics, I would have accepted "good enough" when "AMAZING" was so close! Not to mention "Good enough" would have slowly devolved into "I'm fighting this saddle, aren't I?" over the following months, like my last Dressage saddle did.
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| Said rolled up towel |
Next, let's look at the life of a good,in-demand fitter. They don't have a life. As one put it "I don't have a husband or a family or a house or a life, this is my life." Unless you have a huge concentration of customers in one place, fitters have to travel a long way to get to you, and fitters flunk out of the industry for very mature, rational, human reasons all the time as a result. So even if you find a good fitter and buy a saddle through them, there's nothing to say they won't quit in a year and leave you with a less qualified fitter, or no fitter at all, and then you're stuck with a saddle no one will work on (if you're in my area where there are no independent fitters).
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| Fact: this baby doesn't exist if former CWD rep Mary is still a saddle fitter |
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| The only one no fitter came out for, and yet, my fitting experience was top notch |
Finally, let's look at fitter education in this country. It's non-existent, and it's why you hear so many people say "[Brand] is a good brand, but it totally depends on your fitter." To be a rep for CWD, Mary spent 30 days in France getting educated, and that's on the high end. Some brands require two weeks of training and no prior qualifications before they get turned loose on your horse's backs. TWO WEEKS! And it shows.
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| County Epiphany. So much hate. Either this block position works for you or it doesn't. |
This system is all-caps BROKEN, and therefore I have an enormous amount of respect for companies like WOW and Eq Saddle Science that are trying to change the system. WOW is trying to solve the "So sorry this custom saddle didn't work for you when it got here, now you have to sell it at a loss and buy another one from me!" problem, and Eq Saddle Science is trying to solve the "No fitters in your area and you're stuck with a saddle no one will work on" problem.
Both companies are weird and unconventional and therefore have a massive uphill battle in an industry full of people that are terrified to be weird and unconventional, but hats off to them for trying to solve the problem instead of contributing to it.
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| With these tools and guidance from a pro, anyone can adjust the Eq Saddle Science saddles in the field |
In the end, I'm glad I dropped something like 800 bucks on fitting fees. What I thought I wanted in the beginning isn't what I ended up liking, and I'm glad I took the time to really do my homework before signing a check over. What I don't expect is for all of you to do that - that's a stupid amount of money. I hope you've learned a lot from these fitting posts so that you don't have to spend that yourselves, and I hope you've learned to hold your fitters to high standards. You and your horse deserve it.
👏👏👏👏
ReplyDeleteGreat post. Following along on your journey has been fascinating.
Thanks!
DeleteI've really appreciated these posts. You may remember a UK Master Saddler looked at mine and in about 5 minutes found my jumping saddle had a twisted tree and the dressage one had a broken rivet on the tree and also was too wide....crappy day! I thought I was just getting new billets and the block position changed! I'd paid regular fitter tons to keep coming back for that jumping saddle that never quite worked despite everyone's assurances it was good. As soon as master Saddler fitter showed me why the saddle was tipping and how that impacted with Bridget's musculature, it was hard to believe no one had noticed it before. End of the day though, I am super glad I found her, and like you totally shocked at how little training or care goes into your average saddle fitting experience.
ReplyDeleteI do remember that now that you say it. It's amazing what we, even as pretty astute and well-read riders, can miss. So glad you found the good fitter!
DeleteI've learned so much following along with your saddle fitting journey! :) The thing that scares me about buying custom is just what you described - the horse changing or me changing. That's why I'm so curious about both the WOW saddles and EQ Saddle Science. I'm interested to see what you ultimately decide on.
ReplyDeleteSo glad! Decision to come later this week :)
DeleteHonestly I’m extremely skeptical of the fitting industry. My first experiences buying saddles with professional fitters were wildly unsuccessful with the different pros saying very different things. In both instances I ended up with saddles that did not fit the horse - and one didn’t come close to fitting me either. And I paid out the nose for that privilege.
ReplyDeleteIt’s tough bc we all just want to do the best for our horses and set ourselves up for success. My impression at this point tho is that horses haven’t read the book on what dictates a “perfect” fit. Rather, they will generally tell you if there’s an issue (tho most fitters would rather you rely on them to translate that for you...). Meanwhile poor rider fit is super problematic, bc the horse is sorta carrying two distinct units (the saddle and the rider) that aren’t necessarily moving in unison rather than one balanced unit, if that makes sense.
So now I prioritize my own fit in the saddle and avoid anything with obvious horse fit issues (pinching, narrowness, gapping, wither/spine clearance, poor balance front to back, and.... yea that’s basically it lol) and go from there. My situation might be unusual tho since we have a robust used saddle market with free trials. So it was a lot easier to cut out the middle man - the fitters lol
That's an exceptionally good point and counter perspective and I'm glad you commented. We don't have a used saddle market or free trials at all here. My "local" tack store is 1:15 away one way, and the most consignment Dressage saddles I've ever seen there is two. They have a few more H/J saddles than that, but not by much. So our only options are shopping online and doing paid trials, which, even if you're just paying shipping, that adds up fast.
DeleteI couldn't agree more with your evaluation of the saddle fitting industry in the US. Work has a qualified fitter who will work on any saddle. He has years of experience, received extensive training in Europe, and is well-liked and respected by just about everyone who's ever met him. But he travels with our east-coast mobile unit, which is convenient for people between New York and Florida, but not for anyone else!
ReplyDeleteOur fitter is eyeing retirement, and the process of trying to find someone to replace him has been awful. He had an apprentice for a couple of months, but that person was offered a different job in the equestrian industry that was less travel and more pay, and they left. It's difficult for people who want to learn to get the education they desperately need- apprenticeships don't pay well (or at all), it's a big time investment, and it's hard to even find a qualified teacher!
I don't know what the solution is, but the system is definitely broken and it's no wonder people are suspicious of fitters!
That's very interesting especially coming from someone who understands the industry as thoroughly as you do. A lot of this is a result of the US being as big as it is, and riders being as few and far between as they are, and I'm not sure any part of the saddle fitting industry as it stands today can pivot to accommodate that. I also think our standards for saddle fit are higher now, and the diversity of breeds we ride and therefore the saddles we need are broader now, which further complicates things.
DeleteI really hope you can find another good one, I can't imagine losing that guy!
100% this. Honestly, in the long run, doing what you did is likely less expensive and certainly less frustrating than buying and selling saddle after saddle that just isn't going to work and playing the guessing game.
ReplyDeleteThat's probably true, taking the time and spending the money to figure out my preferences now probably saved me from taking a big loss on something custom I didn't like.
DeleteThis is a great post. It's been really fascinating following along with your journey. I went through so many different trials before finally getting my custom saddle. It has worked really well for me and it did work for Levi, but Levi's back has changed and now I'm not sure who I can trust to fix that locally. If I were in CA, I could get it fixed by the saddle's maker, but out here I don't know anyone I'd trust. I looked at WOW saddles a few years ago and the thing I liked about them (in addition to the replaceable parts was that the fitter would let you borrow the saddle for 30 days before making the purchase.
ReplyDeleteOh that's so frustrating, isn't that the guy you told me about who is basically an independent saddle maker? That's exactly what I'm talking about, now that you're on the other side of the country from him, what do you do? Fingers crossed that you find someone.
DeleteI too enjoyed your journey. But I also felt for you. Your post s spot on! I like the British system of master saddlery. I am so lucky that I have one here and that she has an apprentice.
ReplyDeleteLove this! Thankfully I'm totally willing to try something different, and I'm glad I ended up with my Wow. I don't know if I would do the Eq Science saddle, but if I sat in it and loved it, I wouldn't care what it looked like.
ReplyDeleteBeing short of stature, finding a saddle fitter who has proper solution to your conformation issues would be key. I don't want to have to get an 18" dressage saddle just so that my flaps would be more forward to accomodate my shorter stirrups! (what I was told by a SMS qualified fitter I might have to do)
Totally agree! Peggy spent big bucks getting Comrade a semi custom Black Country and it really did not fit well by time it arrived months later from England. Same thing happened with my Thornhill Germania, it only fit for a short time. We have stuck with changeable gullets so at least we can help with that part, but still need a fitter to fix the flocking. Saddle buying is not for the faint of heart. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
ReplyDeleteI've really enjoyed following along with your trials and travails and learning about some new saddle companies in the process. It's been pretty eye opening. I'm not currently on a saddle search, but if/when I am, the information I've learned from your experiences will be heavily considered.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting and informative. I haven't had to shop for an English saddle in eons, so I'm sort of thankful for that! Being short - or outside the norm size-wise - makes it very hard to fit saddles (among other things). Having someone understand and appreciate that, along with biomechanics of horse AND rider is pretty darn rare.
ReplyDeleteWe have 2 saddle makers locally that sometimes do "fittings" but it is pretty limited - the western guy tries bare trees on the horse and then you order a saddle (better hope it works for your seat/leg!) and the English guy will re-stuff/modify based on horse fit, but doesn't watch you ride. Not super helpful. I've seen ads for fitters from a couple of brands that roam the region, but have no experience with them personally.
Oh man... I have become so disillusioned by the saddle industry. I don't think most saddle fitters can go very far beyond the same "customization" you get from order a Crosby in a wide tree with a long flap from Dover. It's been a long and expensive project to even figure out what I want, and it has made me so keenly aware of how many people are forced to sell brand new saddles at a HUGE loss because it's not what they were looking for. As I mentioned before, my experience with Patrick was SO DIFFERENT from yours. Hopefully if people keep voting with their dollars, there will be some improvement in the industry.
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed following along on your saddle fitting journey. I appreciate you dropping all that money and sharing what you learned with all of us!
ReplyDeleteI really appreciate you sharing this. I hate that it feels like you have to 'get lucky' to get a certain saddle that fits you and the horse. If I'm dropping 5K on it it shouldnt be luck. It should be design and effort.
ReplyDeleteI wish the onus was on the saddle companies to do everything in their power to make sure the saddle YOU bought from them has the fit and feel YOU want for you and your horse.
For some reason it isn't and I really do not understand why.
Oh yeah, I hate saddles so much. And this whole "custom" thing has pushed the market to beyond ludicrous & unaffordable to "normal" people like me who can't drop $3k on a pony prancing accessory. The only reason I have the saddles I do is because they were gifts from generous people I was lucky to have in my life. I could not replace them.
ReplyDeleteWe have ONE decent fitter in my area, who is fortunately not affiliated with any brand. Her schedule is packed. Funny fact: she refuses to order any client any saddle with crystal crap on it because she does not want to deal with nonsense when one crystal falls off & client wants to return the saddle for "repairs." I think this is an excellent policy.
Way too many brands now are so focused on silly things like weird cantle decorations, bedazzling, colors, that they have completely abandoned what actually matters -- fitting the horse & making things well. Add to that what you mentioned, that in the US, so many people are not even properly qualified...it's just a nightmare, exponentially moreso if you CAN'T pay for it.
Thanks for your detailed writeups -- I know many people will find the details helpful.
I work at a tack consignment store, and the number of brand new saddles is unreal.
ReplyDeleteOf course the majority of inventory is used, but sometimes saddles come in and have been ridden in once or twice.
Imagine buying an $8,000 Antares, riding in it twice, consigning it, and even priced at $4,700 it's not sold-because if someone wants to spend 5k on a saddle, they'll just buy "custom" aka pick your tree and seat and color, not true custom.
I've unfortunately developed very high standards for saddle quality and cleaning and maintenance, but my motto is "buy your horses young and your saddles used" especially if you have Devoucoux taste on an HDR budget